Fifty yards of course is the preferred distance. My Ruger LCR .357 Magnum is pleasant to shoot even with full pressure loads. Most notably the lighter weight bullets. Bullets are .357 for jacketed and .358 for lead in diameter. My brother put CT laser grips on his wifes M36. What sort of wildlife are you thinking would be a good application for this self-defense load? I have found that some powder coated bullets which are the same weight as lead, feel quite punchy out of the gun. However, after consulting my several different manuals, 3.5 seems to be a border line max load. Thats a pretty clear explanation and comparison of the NEEDS of the strength of the chamber for each caliber. I may have to rethink my plan. I'm seating to what's in my loading manual. Despite being well over one hundred years old, it still has perfect relevance for todays shooters, both novice and advanced. I have a few 30-30 cases modified to shoot singles with a very light load. This post was originally published in 2018. That's usually +P power level in .38 Special. Damn. Bullseye 3.2gr / 763fps --> 4.2gr / 892fps (max), Unique 4.3gr / 773fps --> 5.3gr / 944fps (max), 231 3.9gr / 733fps --> 4.8gr / 896pfs (max). All three of those powders have published load data for that weight bullet in .38 Special. https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2221-distinguished-revolver-loads-that-don-t-suck?highlight=distinguished+++%2Bloads, Load question on Penn Bullets for Distinguished load. * Bullseye is the best powder I have found for 38 special. Heck, 38s in a J frame arent fun- theres no way a 327 Mag isnt worse. Im a big fan of .32 revolvers, I do think they are a superior choice for carrying and shooting than .38 is, but that doesnt mean I think .38 or .357 sucks, I just dont think theyre the best choices for a small frame revolver. [.38 Special] is a very versatile and useful round. These were one each in .45 ACP, .38 Special, and 9mm. Many of these men had no real experience with the handgun, and we had but a few weeks to get them up to very high standards that most shooters will never reach. Insufficient crimping ) ARCHIVED. I estimate that the price for each of the three loads runs between $7 and $8 per box of 50. WST seems like such a good powder in .45 ACP that I thought I might try it. From my Hornady Third Edition manual 38 Special 158 Grain Lead Round Nose #3586 Win 231 3.0 Grains 650 FPS 4.4 Grains 850 FPS Now I will tell you from experience you do NOT want to load Lead Bullets Fast. Its the kind of load that will make you fall in love with the 1911 all over again! have been factored in, but Looks like starting with roughly 4.2 of W231. 41 Rem Mag 35,000 It seems to burn completely in the .38 and is not as critical as the faster powders like Bullseye. If you, I took the vow not to buy any more AR-15s a couple of years ago. Word to the wise: all handgun cartridges (with the likely exception of .44 Magnum and maybe even .357 Magnum) are underpowered for self-defense. Allgoodhits Posts : 726 Join date : 2017-09-17 Location : Northern Virginia Like I have experimented with both of Hornadys 200-grain semiwadcutters in this load: the more button-nosed SWC and the longer Combat/Target (C/T) version. (This is prevalent among most aftermarket designs- they are smallest in the longest, strongest finger area, and largest at the bottom pinkie area.). Most people have one general power level for their semi-autos due to the fact that the guns wont function with ammo thats not energetic enough to cycle the slide. Really interested in getting the. I have loaded wadcutters for plinking , Double end 148 grain,, mixed brass over 2.7 gn WST or Bullseye. Times across steel plate racks and many of my standard drills with the 200-grain SWCs rival my best easy-shooting 9mm results. Congratulations on spelling loath right. ), I very much wanted to start with some tried-and-true Bullseye loads, but it took an epic scavenger hunt across many months to find a canister of the elusive classic. I bought him as a gift a 642 with the black rubber grips, a few speedloaders w/big knob tops, and Hornady 125 grain FTX loads. YouTube has plenty of reloading channels or the Reloaders Network webpage has more info as well. Current J frame factory grips have similar features and are made of a stiffer compound. As an old bullseye guy I've stuck with Bullseye powder for almost 30yearsusing lead bullets. The same volume of BE will weigh much more than than same volume of WST. As a young man, I came into a couple of cases of hand-me-down factory mid-range wadcutters. Only need cast when driving up to 1200 fps or so. I'd rather shoot my .45 then. As example, 5.8 6.0 grains UNIQUE with a 125 grain HP in a snub nose .357 revolver. The Bullseye powder pushed five into two inches flat for another 1911 that is typically a four-inch gun. Many people tend to poo-poo .38 Special (standard pressure) for self-defense as being somehow underpowered. Ive been looking for a reason to get into reloading, and am particularly intrigued by the extremely long case life of .38 Special. 10. Note the dark band of lube on the 3 lead bullets. It is less of an issue on a progressive press, but still requires attention. The 36s greater weight makes it much easier to shoot than the 638. Notes: Bbl Length: 5.6; primer: Fed. I always used mixed brass because it was all I had. I don't completely understand the physics behind it. At belly button range, very nasty load. .38 special has got to be one of the best calibers there is . Unique was a sooty powder so Ive switched to W231. It has been many years since I used a Lee Loader and a wooden mallet to reload 8mm Mauser. 8.) Installed some wood boot grips, modified them with grooves at the bottom of each side panel, similar to those on Pach. Would you like to react to this message? 300 Blackout Fine-Tuning: Finding the Right Barrel Length for Your Rifle. So if you find a "lead" load it is also a plated load. revolver, with a 3 barrel, and 4 6 oz. These are light and easy to shoot. Oh, I practice with it. As for the load ya the 158gr will probably take a little more, but your gun will tell you how much more.. Enough that the range Officer at my range recognized them because the muzzle blast made a distinctive cat whisker pattern at 8 and 10, and 2 and 4 o clock. In the 1950s, 60s. I agree with your .38 Special assessment points for the very same reasons. *WAP is not best choice for .38 special, too slow and inconsistent. Even slower powders may provide more consistent speeds and will be tested in the future (No. A longer case, with have a tighter crimp them a shorter one, what will lead to variations in pressure, and accuracy. I would say I completely disagree with you on ever even contemplating using a revolver for self defense unless you are a person that has never owned a gun and not likely ever to practice with it. Yes, I had no issues with the 38 SPL, but the 32 is just more FUN- especially when I get seven shots of it in a revolver the size of J frame! No offense sir but those charges look low for Unique. The cases are large enough that they can be easily manipulated by inexperienced hands and yet small enough to not require much force in the sizing stage. Hence I carry a semi-auto pistol chambered in .40 S&W. @ Grumpy- I tried LOTS of grips on S&W revolvers. Choosing a bullet Notes: primer: CCI 500; case: Speer; NOTE: All loads are maximum. The Internet Pedant And this is a guy who normally trusted nothing but a 45 acp. 7, No. "Berry's Superior Plated Bullets are the finest bonded copper-jacketed bullets available today.." ?. The Lyman is handy for sizing or priming while youre watching a movie. I use CCI Snake shot for two and Buffalo Bore short Barrel 130 gr. Dont take this the wrong way; Im guessing the average age of .38 spl fans is about my age (70). As anyone learns quickly, first thing that needs to be done is to replace the small factory S&W grips (I use Hogue) so you can hold onto the gun. I still think highly of the LCR but would shoot only 148 grain wadcutters in .38 Special or .32 H&R Magnums in the .327 Magnum model. Years back, for indoor matches I teamed the heavier S&W Model 28 with 3.4 grains of the same powder and bullet in . Alliant listed 3.6 gr Bullseye as maximum (15000 psi) in 38 Special and 3.8 as max in 38 Special PLUS P (17000 psi) with 158 LSWC bullets. Bullseye is the classic pistol powder and the backbone of many pet loads. At 25 you can get away with a lighter load. 10 for a full cylinder. This is an easy-shooting load that can cause some power-philes to tusk-tusk and comment. Unlike the author, I did *not* keep records, I cant even imagine how many rounds I loaded, almost 100% .357 magnum, since that was all I shot. Its worth mentioning that loaders do all kinds of obsessive rituals to squeeze the groups down. Shoot cast and coated bullets and you can go much higher in load and velocity. IT'S A COMBINATION TAPER AND ROLL CRIMP. When I finally got my hands on a pound of Bullseye, I naturally started with some of these loads. An early Les Baer .45 knotted a group of the lead SWCs into a tight 1.3-inch group, while an M&P .45 did 1.25 inches. Best to start a little low, and work up slowly with a chrono, though. They are true classics, and I hope you get as much use out of them! For any loads over 900-1,000 FPS, I suggest using a jacketed bullet. The 4.0 grain load is relatively mild recoil and was accurate. I have 100% confidence in my ability to shoot quickly, accurately, and comfortably with the 32, and I also have confidence that, if needed, my 32 H&R loads from Buffalo Bore and DoubleTap are quite capable of doing the job they are asked to do. Magtech Sport Shooting, 38 Special, 125 Grain, Full Metal Jacket, Flat, 50 Round Box 38Q I have 125 grain jacketed bullets, Bullseye powder and CCI 500 primers. I like Bullseye in the 38 Special, and it was a consistent performer with the 125 grain bullets. Is it considered safe to down load a cartridge that far under starting? Re: 38 special loads by GrumpyOldMan 11/10/2013, 4:23 pm IIRC, the NRA Action Pistol power floor is a "factor" of 125, which requires a full 1,000 fps for 125-gr bullets. Would you like to react to this message? Some people then claimed SAAMI raised the 357 Mag to 45,000. I have done it with 38 special and 44 Mag, only to have a lead coated bore that looked like a rusty old drain pipe. Forget about it. Proof of concept with .38 first, then on to 9mm where we have to actually cycle a slide but I think Ive got that problem solved. Most of these are at the upper end. Shot placement is just as important if not more. The .38 Special is the most popular of all centerfire revolver cartridges. Hmm. HAVE FUN JP. But still nothing under 3.5". Great Cast Lead Bullet for IDPA. BrianEnos.com (Inceptor) Diameter: 0.357" Powder: CFE Pistol (Hodgdon) Primer: WIN WSP Case: WIN Trim Length: 1.145" C.O.L. I use 3 gr. Ive probably picked up 300 cases of .38 the past few months and will continue to grab them as I see them, but whats nice is I can shoot more and put that money towards brass for .32 or .45 Colt, stuff that I never see at the range. My son asked if I wanted him to help, then fired one shot and handed it back. Ammunition is available everywhere handguns are legal. If youre recoil averse (and dont have a disability of some kind), its because you havent shot it enough. Enter to win an FN FAL Rifle. Content . As a result, Ive been able to spend far more time practicing with it rather than fussing with it. Alliant Pistol/Revolver Load Data: Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data. I keep thinking about trading it for a Model 27 or, maybe, one of the new Pythons for extra weight. I have not loaded plated bullets in quite some time, since they are not useful for my accuracy needs. What I learned after 50 years of shooting and reloading 38spl cases some where around 100 thousands rounds. Its just two lubed balls on top of each other with the top ball roll crimped just past the hemisphere. Power Pistols works well in short auto cartridges and higher pressure cartridges but no so well with a 158 grain bullets in 38 Special. I dont see much conversation on these specifics but I think Its all about the size of the explosion in the chamber. Larry Gibson "Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing." Nikola Tesla 01-30-2020, 01:43 PM #9 Mr_Flintstone Boolit Buddy Join Date Jan 2020 Location is a good place to start. VV N320, N330 and N340 are products of VihtaVouri Oy Company In my time with the cartridge, I have come to appreciate the mid to low end of the power spectrum and thus have made extensive use of Trail Boss powder and bullets such as Hornadys .358 158gr SWC. Home About Partners Contact. .38 J frame.) The 919 case is tapered and therefore wider at the base than the .38 special is. AA#2 is about the same burn rate, but burns much cleaner with less smoke in my guns. The .38 ammo is more common to find than the .44 ammo, so that is a big reason to reload the .44. I dont mind it at all, though others do and look to similar performing powders that address these things. These types of guns are not as strong as more modern solid frame revolvers. My use of the term adequate means that Hodgdon has produced a workable result for the .38 Special, .38 Special +P, and .357 Magnum that may be used for 125 grain weight bullets having velocity limitations. VihtaVuori Oy Company, reloading booklet (1995) Numerous magazine articles on reloading special calibers and personal loads where noted. .38 brass isnt as common as 9, .40, or .45 brass at the range, but of all the revolver brass you can find its the most plentiful. I haven't used any of those powders but I like faster powders in 38 Special like Titegroup and Clays. When I finally took the plunge and started handloading (FIRST SHOTS WITH HANDLOADING: How Hard Can It Be? The cowboy loads would be good choices as listed, since these ARE reduced loads for that sport, where usually just hitting a metal plate to make a sound is all that is required of the round. The fast powders, W231, HP38, Bullseye would go over pressure very quickly with any slight changes, in seating depth or primer change. Like almost all pistol cartridges called ".38" the .38 Special actually takes .357" diameter bullets. I probably shoot more 38s than everything else put together but a Dillon 750 makes loading a lot faster. Does anyone have any data. I'm going to start with 3.8 grains. (Note: These are near maximum loads (in some cases ARE MAXIMUM), you should use 10%. Using bullets from Hornady HP-XTP, Hornady HP-XTP or FP-XTP, Hornady FP-Cowboy, Hornady HBWC, Hornady SWC-HP, SWC or LRN. Only if you see more than one load, is it less than maximum. Just an FYI. Ideal load in a 2 J Frame .38. But its also worth considering that its pushing the same size and weight projectile at the same velocity as the standard Army revolver load during the Civil War. Bullet seating depth is very forgiving. SASS# 85224. Great article & thread!!! Honestly, plated bullets won't give you the level of accuracy needed for bullseye competition, even at 25 yards. These two can cover the entire performance spectrum up to .38+P. (Note H110 & W296 are the same as of 2008 as is HP-38 & W231), (IMR 4227 is same as H-4227 if made in Australia), * Blackhorn 209 is a black powder substitute with smokeless like qualities. I get okay accuracy with 4.4 of W-W 231 and 125s, depending on what bullet is used. Shoots well in my K-38, 686, and a friend's K-38 at 50 yards in the Ransom rest. Send the cylinder out to get cut for moon clips and adapted to 9mm, so you can shoot both 38/357/9mm and use all on moon clips. Bullseye is the classic pistol powder and the backbone of many pet loads. The load you use will be up to your gun. Not sure how that translates to Bullseye powder. The beauty of shooting a .38 is that you can easily practice at the ranges you'd fight at using basically any cheap bullet at minimal expense. Classic loads are economical. Id pay at least a dollar to see it. I have some W231 that I use for my .38 super. The cartridge offers a great deal of zest and has thousands of possible load combinations. IMHO .38 special is just fine for self defense, but just not enough to crack engine blocks. You need a .357 Magnum revolver if you want to try a 9MM cylinder. My usual 38 Spl load is a 125 gr plated bullet over 5 grains of bullseye. I found it to be a nice blend of accuracy, soft recoil, and sure functioning, with enough spice behind it to reliably topple steel targets. Interestingly, I had pistols that would shoot one well and the other impressively, but have not yet had one pistol do magic with both. 38 special is a great cartridge. I've tried Berry's plated as well as Remington. But not too tough. WC, 158 gr. ( customer reviews) $ 10.69 - $ 246.00. I also find the LCR .357 enjoyable to shoot with all .38s and most .357s. I'm asking the above questions because I don't want to run too hot of a load, but wasn't sure if it was ok to drop down below 2.8 as far as 2.5. IF YOU ARE USING SWAGED 158GR BULLETS 3.1 WILL WORK, IF USING HARD CAST 3.3 IS NEEDED. I just dont like practicing with it. Handload: 158 grain round nose lead /3.8 grains Bullseye MV 775 fps ME 210 ft./lbs. Load with 38 S&W data. If she had shot more, I would have probably bought another set of dies, to prevent the need for changing adjustments between the two. Never ransom rested it, but held 10 ring off sandbags. The instructors worked magic in many cases, but having a load like this to gradually work shooters onto full-strength loads would have been a great tool. I have tested lots and lots of different bullet and found them all to be great. Going up to 3.9 Gr for +P. The design of this modern revolver makes the SW guns seem archaic. Not as easy to find brass these days as it is not the most popular round anymore. You will be, essentially, making 38 Short Colt. each bullet is different for oal due to a crimp groove on most. They all shot horrible at 25 yards. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. That's usually +P power level in .38 Special. 1.455 in. WST is a good powder for a very specialized load. Like Wobbly. I routinely use only two powders: Trail Boss and Titegroup. IIRC, I used 4.5 gr of Bullseye under a 125 gr lead bullet for a light plinker, and 5.6 gr of Bullseye under a 148 gr wadcutter (~815 fps, 4" bbl, probably around 750 fps out of a snub). I thought the DR program was NRA, not CMP. Yeah no. This produces about 550-650fps from a 1 7/8 barrel and feels like shooting a very powerful .22LR. 357 LCR in 3 inch variant. Thanks to all for the info. It'll look funky, but it will shoot. Interesting. I will start ouy at the minimum velocity then. So I'd think you should find a decent load for short line at about 700 Fps and for the long line at about 800. Both are excellent fight stoppers. I simply took mixed brass and ran em through the Hornady Lock-N-Load AP press with the bare minimum preparation. But, with jacketed bullets that doesn't seen to be working. I recently picked up a 396 Nightguard and am a convert to the 44 Special! Required fields are marked *. Bullseye is one of the oldest smokeless pistol powders and still one of the most popular. http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Powder.aspx?powderid=1, I also have the Berry's 125gr plated flat point bullet and I am trying to find a min and max load with unique powder. I am way shy of 70 years old and I love me some .38 Special. Too early Are you sure? 4.2 gr. My M60 came w/ factory banana grips- open back, long enough for pinkie rest but too small in girth behind the trigger guard. 110gr JHP! It is always higher when powder is next to primer. That one Ill keep. butt 686 shipped w/ Hogue monogrips, discarded immediately due to pronounced finger grooves. Softer alloys of lead are just easier on the machinery. The 125 Hornady XTP, a jacketed hollow point bullet that can easily handle 1500 fps velocities. Reloading .44 Spl. Depending on the drill, 200-grain .45s let shooter push faster or use available time to shoot better, with significantly less recoil than hardball. The .38 Special remains very popular for personal protection and Michelle Hamilton shares her thoughts on the top loads for concealed carry, like this 158-grain SWCHP FBI Load, based on her testing. Display as a link instead, Posted: 4/17/2014 10:53:09 AM EST. When you could leave city limits and just about every dirt mound in sight, was a plinking range. The 38 Special, practically snubnose 38 Specials, seem to do their best work with bullets right around the 155-160 grain range. Load shot well out of a variety of service handguns. May 15, 2012. kc2za said: Hi All, I have been loading .38 spl with 2.7 gr. I found the plated wadcutters to have NO accuracy. As you move up in loads, you at least need the gas check on the bottom of the bullet to prevent gas melting the lead and fouling the barrel. Especially if you reload. I picked some up from my local Scheels yesterday. I have tested both brass and nickel-plated cases using mild loadings and have not yet worn out a case. I shoot a Glock 21, and had a great time shooting some poly coated 230 grain round noses today. 32 H&R Mag 21,000 I here from quite a few that 3.5 gr of bullseye is a good load for 158 gr lead Bullets for bullseye shooting. It is a very versatile and useful round. Haven't tried it in the Colt Officer's Model Match yet. You will find plenty of Red Dot loads there. accuracy. Don't know of any bullets like that. Good thing I didn't go with the original powder charge I intended to use.
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